Smile Business Diaries Conversation with Dr Michael Katsaros

This transcript has been reviewed by AI and may contain inaccuracies

Maria Cabanellas: Hello, Dr. Michael Katsaros, how are you today?

Dr. Michael Katsaros: I'm doing well, very well. Excited to be here and, um, honored, absolutely, to be asked to do this. This is wonderful.

Maria Cabanellas: Oh my goodness, I mean, I can say the same. I'm really excited to hear from you because you've set yourself up, uh, you know, with such a great office and dynamic in what you do today. I want to start off by allowing you to share, you know, who you are as a person and what your practice is like today, if you could do that for us.

Dr. Michael Katsaros: Sure. Um, well, I have to say, um, who I am as a person is, uh—you know, how much time do you have, right? Um, I can certainly go on and on, that's something that I'm very capable of. Let me try to explain to you how, how I've come to be.

One of those things is that I was told early on by a wonderful and respected relative to always pursue opportunities, see them through, and make sure that you don't close those doors. Keep the doors open even if the situation is, at the time, potentially not great. Or even have the serial—give the benefit of the doubt. And so, um, it’s something that I think, at 18 years old when I was going to college, still holds true to me. And it's a very valuable lesson that I try to, you know, pass on to others.

So, how did, um, how did we become successful? And I think success is measured in a lot of important ways. But our practice is, uh, very successful, and it basically happened serendipitously. Life, you know, has a lot—you know, a lot of luck, um, and a lot of pursuit and drive and recognizing what's good and trying to filter through what's not.

I found good consultants, whether it's friends or colleagues or mentors that we had dialogue with, which led me to my now-retired partner in 2010. And early on, when my youngest was recently born, it seemed like it was time to make a change. I'd always had interests in, um, the business side of dentistry, and I had spent a lot of time in the early stages of my career recognizing that, um, dentistry is something that we need to hone our skills for and get really good at.

And when you feel as though you know—and everybody can interpret their own measure of what efficiency is—but when I felt proficient, I realized there was so much more. And so, I pursued different avenues of education, um, to get better and more qualified.

I wanted to become, um, a practitioner who was less conventional. Using conventional techniques is a really important part of the standard of care and doing good for your patients, but, um, at the same time, there is so much more. And growing and learning is something that takes time to understand the value in.

I can tell you that I thought I was, after four or five years, doing a great job. And then I learned from others that I needed to learn so much more. So that took me down a path that led to other relationships and eventually being connected on a telephone, when I was looking for my own practice, with my now-retired partner.

He was extremely impressive from the get-go and had started a legacy-style practice in—I think—1974 in downtown Washington, D.C., when nobody was in downtown Washington, D.C. It was a much different environment than it is now.

His vision was that it was going to develop, and over time, it would be beneficial to be a Washington dentist when nobody was in Washington, D.C. And he was right.

And so, his vision, being approximately 30 years ahead of me—a full generation—was appealing. And his style was, um, contagious. And while we're not the same people, uh, we still try to be true to that legacy and vision.

Of course, myself and my current partners are, um, in my generation, and so we have different ways that we feel confident in moving that legacy forward. But at the same time, um, we have to give credit to those that got us to where we are.

So, for me, um, I can certainly tell you all of my accolades, um, but I think that the growth aspect is—we are here because others have influenced us. And hopefully, we've paid attention.

And that level of authenticity to the objective, to the goal, to the vision of dentistry, is the key to success. And always looking back and saying, "Are we doing what we set out to do with our vision?"

Maria Cabanellas: Yeah, absolutely. And if I recall, um, just some fun facts about your office—I mean, you're, you're like in the Central Business District of Washington, D.C., right? Like, right around the corner from the White House?

Dr. Michael Katsaros: Yeah, we are. Um, it's very common and normal for us, but Washington—well, the White House—is two blocks away. And so, if you go for a walk, you're, you're there. And it, you know, sometimes seems like the center of the universe, uh, and other times it's routine. But we are very grateful, very privileged to be on K Street.

And the Washingtonians that come to see us are part of that ecosystem. And what's wonderful about all of them is they, they value their health and wellness. And, um, they see us as their, their doctor, their, their consultant. They, uh, confide in us, um, their, their own insecurities, which may allow us the opportunity to diagnose and coach them along to become, um, more healthy—but on their terms.

So Washington is, uh, a breath of fresh air to be in. I came from the New York-New Jersey area. I'm originally from Pennsylvania, but that's another story. Um, getting to Washington was something I was attracted to based on, um, previous experiences in Washington, D.C.

Actually, getting married in, in Bethesda, Maryland, and my wife being from the area, it was always a, a place I had fond memories of.

Maria Cabanellas: You know, it's, it's a beautiful city. The buildings cannot grow—uh, be built—any taller than the Washington Monument, so there's a lot of light. So even though it's, it's urban, it's also very neighborhood-like and walkable.

Dr. Michael Katsaros: Yeah, it’s a fun city. Lots of restaurants and lots of people. And we—I love people, so it helps.

Maria Cabanellas: So take me through the process of how your office was developed, because it sounds like you met someone who already had an idea to go there. Or was it already established and then you bought over the practice? How did that—

Dr. Michael Katsaros: Yes, it, it was—that’s a good question.

Well, the idea—it was first a solo practice, and there were some partners or relationships that came and went, as relationships happen. With, um, as it grew, it became clear to my partner that, uh, it wasn’t about an individual.

And he had that intuition to recognize, probably in the '90s, that it was important to develop a brand. And the brand is how you can carry legacy, because individuals can come and go. And so, to find the right people to plug into the brand is the critical part of the longevity of a business—at least, that's what we believe.

So he changed the, um, the LLC, uh, from his name to the Washington Center for Dentistry.

And once that happened, and with very early marketing and an early website that started in the '90s—that has, uh, been with Google for 25 years—and careful marketing, but also recognizing that the, the best referral source and the best, uh, relationships develop from the relationships that you have with your patients.

And the measure of success is often how that relationship with another person builds into other relationships.

So, it's—you know, the, the common thing now is to do a lot of marketing, which we certainly do our fair share of. But you can recognize how patients have a different perspective, or different perception, or are more sticky to the brand and the legacy and the culture of our practice when they’re coming from other people that share that value.

Maria Cabanellas: Hello! I'm just taking a quick break from this podcast interview to tell you how you can get started with DSD. If there was anything that our guest has mentioned that strikes a chord with you or you are curious about becoming a DSD Clinic, I encourage you to book a call with me.

This is a 30-minute, no-obligation information-sharing session in which I can answer your questions about DSD and discuss your options based on your unique circumstances. The link to schedule a call with me can be found in the notes on this episode.

Now, back to the interview.

Dr. Michael Katsaros: And I think from my perspective—because I was on the outside looking in for a while, uh, as a new associate before becoming a partner—I could recognize that no matter how many patients were in the practice, which isn’t very many, um, the partners that were there for a long time knew the names of their patients.

And if I was seeing one when they weren’t there, I would say, "I saw so-and-so," and they’d say, "Oh yeah! Tell me what’s going on." And I was like, "Wow, I’ve got to step up my game," because I was—I was a dentist. You know, I was trained to be a dentist.

And my heritage, my immigrant, uh, family that came here to give me this fantastic opportunity to be successful—I’m successful because I was encouraged and put in the right positions. And, and I, I—you know, of course, I bought into that concept and, um, and pursued it.

But at the same time, it, it got me to a place where now I’m the dentist, and now I’m working on my skills, and now I’m working on my cases, and, and my situations and healing. But it was more than that—recognizing that diagnosis and treatment planning, um, and telling patients what they need, doesn’t work very well if the basic principles of trust and relationship haven’t been established.

And sometimes that makes it—it’s a lot easier with a patient who’s been referred.

So of course, establishing a brand, being in an amazing location like Washington, D.C., and with patients that are health-focused and want to maintain health in their teeth and their, their—the relationship with the oral systemic component they’re very much, uh, connected with—sometimes more than some of the practitioners that I worked with.

But that is, that is, I think, one of the keys of the secret sauce—recognizing the community.

And then also, my golly, our team.

One thing that I will tell you is that, um, when we—I, we always have team meetings, and we discuss our successes or what we can learn from.

There was always an emphasis on the value of the team and their relationships.

Because we’re not in a patient room all the time. And so, hygienists, it’s, you know, touchpoints—how the phone is answered, and how, um, the patient feels as though they can share something with one—like an administrator—to pass it on to the doctor and get a response, or how they’re welcomed into the office.

We all know we’ve had experiences with doctor’s offices where, you know, "Just sign here." And that is—that’s not authentic.

And that, uh, that puts the patient in a, a lower level and that we’re grander because we’re doctors.

That’s not, that’s not what humans are looking for, you know?

You have to, you have to recognize—some people are coming in, they’re terrified, right?

Okay, and they’re looking for somebody who gets that and isn’t going to scold them. We want to embrace their situation.

I mean, sometimes there are some terrible situations—train wrecks, you know—but a lot of times there are healthy patients that are just afraid. And guiding them, holding their hand—it’s not just the doctor.

So, the influence of, um, my previous partners that kind of created this brand and worked long, taught us, and invested in the team and the growth of that, um, creates an ecosystem of relationships.

And patients will stay with us for whatever relationship they’ve built.

And I—I’m, uh, very, very proud of that.

You know, I’m also proud of, um, the, the location.

And also, if you come to our office, it’s, it’s impressive that when you first come to the office, you come up the elevator to the eighth floor. And, you know, you, you might expect that when the elevator opens, you’re going to walk somewhere through the corridor. But your door—the door—is the elevator.

And as soon as the elevator opens, we’re right there.

Maria Cabanellas: Oh, you’re just pulled right in.

Dr. Michael Katsaros: Yeah. And then the windows are there, and it’s just—it’s beautiful.

So that may not have a lot of humility, but as a, as a potential associate back in 2010, that was a wow factor.

And I walked in, and I was greeted the way that we greet patients.

And I was—I felt special.

And so that’s what we’re aiming for.

Aiming for and delivering.

You know, there, there are the successes and failures, both.

Well, we’re—we’re working, we’re massaging. And I think that, like I said about the team, it’s really about the culture and the relationship and all the stakeholders in a dental practice—including the patients and the community.

Maria Cabanellas: Absolutely. And you said something really interesting to me—that, you know, the founder of the office itself started out marketing in the '90s. This was before, I think, people really knew about marketing in dentistry. You know, it was at a time when you weren’t so pressured to market as you are today, right?

So, having that experience—being in an office that started so before its time, honestly, at a time when many would think you didn’t really need to market—but he did.

How has that worked out for you guys today?

Dr. Michael Katsaros: Well, marketing has evolved significantly. We see it in the last five years.

So, if we’re doing internet marketing and social media, it doesn’t have the same impact as relationship building does.

But at the same time, it provides what I believe is a way for validation or a referral.

Now, we do—we definitely have our patients that search online, and because our site is optimized, you know, we’ll pop up quickly because of how long the relationship has been with Google. And our website has a lot of content, a lot of, you know, before and after pictures or just information.

And I think that’s something that we essentially inherited by joining the practice, but we continue to try to massage it and provide patients with content.

But I think it’s really about the balance of the legacy of the practice—the patients that have been with the practice and still are with our practice.

You do the math—it’s, you know, 50 years, and some of them are 50-year patients.

And they also have families and children.

So, those patients have stayed with the practice.

What we find now is that we cannot just focus on one aspect of marketing.

So, it’s been great. It’s definitely eye-catching—we can get the attention of patients with strong Google reviews, for example.

But we recognize that there are multiple facets, many variables, and that marketing in and of itself has to be a united front, covering all the bases.

So, I would say that there was a time when more than 75% was internal marketing. And then there was an evolution to 50/50. And then there was an evolution to, say, 60% internet and 40% internal.

And I think we’re seeing a trend now—maybe even since the pandemic—that internal referrals are an area that, as we track, seem to be making a resurgence.

Reconnecting and reminding new team members about the value—that’s something that is a challenge: acquiring or, you know, developing new team members to the culture.

Well, not necessarily a cultural shift, but adopting that concept and basically drinking the Kool-Aid of our practice and believing in themselves and their contribution and their impact on the practice.

Because we all have these touchpoints with patients.

We all—I recognize, and my partners recognize—that the great experiences are often very much valued.

But the negative experiences are often more sticky for people.

So, making sure that our team knows that somebody’s always watching and paying attention to interactions with each other.

And just like families, not everybody gets along.

And that’s okay. That’s totally normal.

But sometimes we have to put on that, that hat of essentially, you know, performance.

We’re on.

We’re on stage.

And we have to put forth our best effort.

Dr. Michael Katsaros: I think that, you know, you asked the question about the impact of digital marketing. It has its place, but it’s not the only thing.

And in fact, as I mature—or maybe, dare I say, gain some wisdom—we can’t focus on the easy way.

It would be nice, I mean, frankly, doing the path of least resistance is very attractive. But success is a mountain to climb, and to be successful, I believe that we have to continue to be on that mountain.

And when we fall off, we have to get back on as quickly as we can and stay there as long as we can.

Maria Cabanellas: It’s almost ironic, you know, that in the past, we didn’t have all the digital marketing tools, right? And so there was such an allure to it.

So, the first movers in that got all the attention. And then now that it’s become such a standard, the value is now placed in the scarcity of that human connection.

And so, just relying on marketing is not enough.

And if you’re so focused on what everyone else is doing, you don’t stand out anymore.

And your practice is obviously handling that very well.

You have a very large team. Would you be able to give some insight on who is in your office and how it’s running today—how you can manage such a big team and still keep that high level of service to your patients?

Dr. Michael Katsaros: Very good question. I ask myself the same thing on a daily basis because, you know, work-life balance is such an important part.

But how do we do it logistically?

Well, I have spectacular partners, and our core values—while we’re completely different—we get along very well.

And fortunately, our personalities happen to find the tasks that we naturally fall into.

And when our senior founding partner retired, he managed a lot on his own. So, differentiating and figuring things out in the several years since has taken time.

But we found our niche and what we’re good at.

And there’s always another one of us that’s secondary to that.

So, that’s one thing—having a management style that is democratic because there’s three of us and making decisions as quickly as possible.

It’s a lot easier for one individual to make a decision.

But we also have a team of key members that represent their departments—admin, lab. We have an on-site lab, and there are three laboratory technicians with varying skills in what they do.

We have a team of hygienists, and there’s a hygiene lead. We have a team of assistants, and there’s a lead.

We do weekly meetings and try to discuss what the priorities are.

If we try to tackle all the priorities at once—and this is something that I’m actually speaking on one of my partner’s behalf right now—his idea was, frankly, that we can’t do all the things all at once.

And in order to move in the direction of the vision, maintain a culture, and grow relationships, the priorities have to be established and then worked on until decisions are made—until we see that system working.

A lot of what we work on is developing systems and trying not to get into a situation where something wasn’t addressed or where we’re not paying attention to something.

So, how do we do that day-to-day?

We have partners' meetings. We have bi-monthly team meetings.

And then weekly, we have what we call lead meetings, where we address all of these concerns.

So, on a day-to-day basis, sometimes we are working in the practice—we’re being dentists.

If there’s free time during the day, if the schedule is lighter, there are opportunities for discussions.

But we have to take time to have those tough conversations, recognize what’s happening, and try to solve that issue completely so we can move on to the next.

But there are always more and more and more.

So, it is essentially trying to find our way through those challenges and have some collective—or a collective—decision that we all can agree on and pass on to the team.

And then we hope we can get their buy-in.

That’s what the meetings are for.

Maria Cabanellas: It’s so funny because you said it’s like a democracy out there. I feel like being in D.C., it’s made your office legislative.

Dr. Michael Katsaros: That’s an interesting point I hadn’t considered, but certainly, the subconsciousness of that is very clearly connecting.

Maria Cabanellas: Yeah, but it works, right? It works.

Dr. Michael Katsaros: Yeah.

Maria Cabanellas: You know, you’ve obviously had a lot of experiences in your career and from different points of view. Are there a couple of things that maybe you’ve learned the hard way that you can share with the audience, with the listeners, so they can learn from them?

Dr. Michael Katsaros: Oh, sure. How much time do we have?

Well, as anybody, I think, who is at least trying to—gosh, I don’t want to exclude anybody—growth mindset is something that’s a concept, right?

So, I think we’re all kind of fixed in our ways—the way we were raised, our upbringing, the challenges that we’ve had.

Acknowledging that we’re not at the center of our own universe and that we’re part of a collective group of people.

The challenges are when I have gotten stuck in my own mindset—when I didn’t believe in a method or I thought my way was the right way.

Learning now to be more open and have a growth mindset is helping me to see perspectives of other individuals and grow from them.

Relationships—relationships with partners, partners that are no longer with us for various reasons.

For example, one passing—learning that there are times when the practice really needs a lot of emphasis from the whole collective team to step up to make up for the needs of the patients.

If we don’t have opportunities or time in the schedule for a patient, we have to find a way to see them.

That’s part of the legacy. If you have an emergency, we’re going to see you.

And that isn’t always great on a Friday afternoon for the team.

But there are too many practices out there that have a certain level of convenience for themselves, and that has an impact over time on individuals who think they can count on us.

So, making sure that we have our team as a whole when some blips happen in practitioners’ availability—that’s one challenge.

Learning from that is just saying, “Hey, we need to step up. We need to work together.”

There needs to be some level of leadership. Otherwise, the sentiment can shift in the team—the culture of the team can shift.

So, learning that the hard way is expecting something like that not to happen.

You know, you have expectations for life, for success. “Well, I’ve done all these things. Don’t I deserve this?”

Well, no. Absolutely not.

The pandemic.

I think how we navigated that has a lot to do with my managing partner before he retired.

Instead of—you know, a lot of us were like, “Wow, what are we going to do? We have a team. We have no patients. We have a lot of accounts receivable. We have bills to pay. What do we do with our team?”

And a lot of practitioners in Washington let their team go—furloughed, laid off.

And we did not do that.

And it was terrifying for those 12 weeks to do that and to continue to ask.

Fortunately, we had a great relationship with our bank, and they kept helping us.

And what was wonderful was to continue to engage our team on Zoom.

We all talked about what we were going to do, how we were going to plan on keeping our team safe, making sure our patients felt safe when they returned from the pandemic.

Connecting with them, making calls, checking in with those patients that we knew had conditions that didn’t get addressed.

Because they may not have been emergencies, but they were urgent, and we didn’t want them to feel alone or that they were on their own.

So, our team would contact patients directly, check in, and assess whether they needed to be seen.

When we were allowed to see patients for emergencies, we’d each pick a day and a certain period of time, and whoever needed to get in, we’d see them.

Dr. Michael Katsaros: It was scary in the beginning, but then it became routine to have a place to go once or twice a week that was different than staying at home. I felt grateful 12 weeks after the pandemic to actually be able to go back to work, and the patients were grateful.

And it strangely changed our outlook on our practice and, you know, possibly the ebbs and flows of burnout that come. There was a renewed value in our team and in a place of comfort where we were all unified in doing something.

Those that had to stay home and didn't have critical careers—like healthcare practitioners, especially doctors and emergency professionals—were completely essential.

We had that essential role of making sure our patients were safe, or okay, or that their temporary crown wasn't coming off and exposing an uncomfortable tooth. And when they had something to drink, we could make them feel comfortable because being stuck at home, we all know, was one of the most awful experiences of humanity.

Maria Cabanellas: Just, you know—

Dr. Michael Katsaros: Yeah, hitting adversity, seeing it as a big thunderstorm cloud.

And I love this—I’m borrowing this—but I love the concept of the difference between, possibly, a cow and a bison.

And that the cow may recede and avoid and avoid and avoid, and eventually, they're going to be overcome by the storm.

But the bison runs straight directly ahead, and on the other side is the pasture, the green grass, and the blue sky.

Challenging our mindset and having that growth to say, and to recognize that within yourself, I think is a challenge.

Sometimes we are just stuck in a negative thought or negative feedback loop.

To look at that and say, "Okay, here's the storm. There's something better. If we go through it, on the other side, it's going to be better."

And then having those surrounding you embrace that concept and the reinforcement that gives, for example, me, or whatever partner, or whatever team member came up with that.

You know, just because we're the leadership doesn’t mean we have all the good ideas, right?

So, coming out of that and challenging the specific drawbacks of a specific difficulty, and reframing as soon as possible, and saying, "Okay, this is not going away, so let's solve it."

And you know, this kind of ties into, how do we solve the day-to-day as a group of leaders?

We have to have input from our whole team, and that’s where the leadership team will get information from the whole team and then bring it to us, and we’ll prioritize and try to figure out how we move forward.

Maria Cabanellas: Absolutely. Completely agree.

And you know, you said—well, there’s one common factor.

You know, I’ve been interviewing a few DSD clinics now, and I’m noticing a very common trend among how each one of you reacted to the time of COVID.

And the thing that is consistent is having that bison-run-through-it mentality.

That whole mentality of seeing the clear skies and looking at things differently.

Which is such a challenge for most people.

You know, when you're in it and you're going through it, it’s so challenging to pull yourself out and say, "Everything’s going to be okay."

And I know you’re very active in your personal life.

Can you share some of the outlets that you have in life that have helped you maintain this kind of mindset?

Dr. Michael Katsaros: I think the mindset that I have is something that I’m always aspiring to be.

And, you know, just being as vulnerable as I can for you—it’s not always there.

It’s a challenge to wake up sometimes and recognize the day, or what’s impending, or what’s causing stress.

So, the things that I try to do—one is exercise.

Dr. Michael Katsaros: I have a family history of some concerns. I’m not sure if any people exist anymore who don’t have a family history of something, but I like looking at the future and making sure that I can maintain a certain level of strength and endurance so that when I get older, aging is not the factor.

Excuse me—aging is not the factor when it comes to chronological aging, because we see people who are in their 70s, 80s, and 90s who are still very active, and they have a better quality of life, and they live longer.

So, I think that also works very well because when I work out, or I exercise, or I run, that's the part where I’m competitive against myself, and I can push myself through that. If I can get myself to do that every morning—and sometimes I can’t—but when I do, I’ve never looked back and said, "I wish I didn’t do that."

I try to show up for myself. I try to put that step forward.

You know, treating sleep-breathing disorders like sleep apnea—I am a shark for sleep quality. I’m a shark for my own personal sleep, my family's sleep.

When it comes to others, not everybody wants the invitation to be reminded of when to go to sleep—my children especially—but it’s important.

Because when you have good sleep, and you’re active, and you get your body working, that’s your medicine. And you’re better for those that are around you, and that’s a big thing for me.

Riding my bike to work through the pandemic was something I picked up. Carpools and life had changed, so riding 15 miles there and back on a canal—which is just picturesque and beautiful—we’re right on the C&O Canal in Washington, DC, and so I can take a direct shot downtown, park my bike, and go to work.

It’s a wonderful way to show up to work and be ready, and my team would recognize it.

So when I can’t do that now, I meditate.

I really actually got into not just mindfulness, but I pay attention in a particular way. I close my eyes, I breathe, and I do some guided meditation.

And I try to take that into these moments—even just having a conversation with a patient—being more aware of the environment, being present, and being there where I am.

Those are parts of how to stay out of your own insecurities and remind yourself that the people we’re engaging with are also looking to engage.

And keeping that social connection sometimes is about avoiding those insecurities.

I like to work out—I do enjoy it—but it’s very helpful, and I know it’s going to help me live longer.

I think sleep is probably equal to that.

And the third is diet.

Now, with teenagers, it’s a challenge. Our pantry is filled with lots of treats.

So, that’s the one that I’m kind of a bit on hiatus with.

I’m eating well, but not the way that I would like to.

Maria Cabanellas: Hopefully after the holidays, a reset!

Dr. Michael Katsaros: Yeah, yes.

I think longevity is also a big focus from more recent data, information collected, and podcasts.

Everybody is interviewing someone who is contributing to moving society in a possibly better direction.

And because of that, it becomes something that more individuals embrace—this tribe that believes in those things—and recognizing that medicine is within our lifestyle rather than in a pill, a shot, or a surgeon’s approach to treatment.

The more we focus on those pillars of health—including oral health—and also the body’s health and how it affects the mouth, it’s very easy to have a discussion with patients now.

Because they’ve heard of that podcast that I listened to.

Or they’ve heard of the book that I’ve read.

And I’m more able to connect with patients about dentistry just by talking about my values for health and how I want to help—if they’ll allow me to at least give them some suggestions.

Or, in certain cases, coach them, or connect with them about a discussion of an interesting topic.

Because it’s more fun—it’s more fulfilling—to recognize that it’s not simply like, "You know, brush your teeth and floss."

You know, how should we do that? What’s the technique?

One of the interesting methods that I have with patients is to suggest—when we’re getting into just oral health—not so much telling them, "You need to floss every day," but rather, how about changing the behavior of where you floss and what tools you use?

And maybe not doing it in the restroom, in the bathroom, before you go to bed when you’re exhausted.

Or in the morning when you’re rushing out the door.

Where do you spend a lot of time?

And where can you just reach for a tool and then clean up afterward in a restroom?

And in this day and age, a lot of people are at home, or they’re in offices with not a lot of folks.

And if they follow the coaching, they come back, and they’re grateful.

They say, "I don’t bleed—I don’t have bleeding gums anymore."

Or, "I’m so grateful that I don’t have tooth pain anymore."

So, the methods of maintaining health, maintaining my mindset, or trying to do the right thing when no one else is looking—I try to incorporate into who I am and share with those who want to hear it.

And there are those that aren’t ready for it, or just don’t want to hear it.

And I try to read the room and recognize that they’re just not ready to hear what I have to say, and that’s okay.

Maria Cabanellas: You know, that may sometimes be a challenge—to help those that don’t want help, right? But with that, and having such a big office and so many people that you’re responsible for—you touched on this already, but I want to bring it up because I think it’s a very strong topic in dentistry right now—the feelings of burnout.

I would assume that at some point, maybe you felt this yourself, having so much on your plate. And you’re so young too! You’ve got a lot of responsibilities, but you’ve also got a great mindset to keep yourself active and to know what grounds you.

How do you prevent yourself from going down that path, and how can you help others in that, too?

Dr. Michael Katsaros: Burnout is a challenge.

Because you can have burnout that happens for months, and you can have burnout that happens for a couple of hours, right?

And so sometimes it’s the emotions that are developing within that I may not recognize—that I’m getting some type of feedback from another individual.

And it may be my tone, or how I’m speaking to somebody, because I’m under stress.

And that fight-or-flight response of a distressful situation may be causing me anxiety and fear, and so I’m maybe shorter or more dismissive.

So preventing burnout in those moments is just like—okay, what is it? What is it that happened? And trying to move on from it.

Or did I work out that morning?

Trying to correlate it.

There was a great TED Talk years ago where this particular CEO—she ran every day, reran for two miles before work—for everybody else that interacted with her, because she knew that.

So looking back at where I was and in what state of mind I was when I’m feeling that burned-out situation.

And then there are times when things are in a lull or not going the way we expect—or the way I expected.

And I have a lot of expectations. I think that I’m a ruminator, and I think about the situation.

I can get stuck there for longer than most.

And I don’t know, because I have no one to compare myself to but myself.

And of course, like I said earlier, I’m the center of my own universe.

But to look at my day in and day out—to borrow from David Foster Wallace’s commencement speech, which is an amazing one to look up on YouTube—is to recognize that we’re all affected by this.

We all have an ego.

We all have a dark side.

We all have insecurities.

And to somehow borrow again from coaching and therapists that I’ve had—to recognize that in this moment, I am okay.

And nothing that’s happened is so tragic in most cases that we can’t move forward.

So burnout happens, I think, for me, when I lose sight.

When I lose sight, and I start recognizing—okay, oh, this happened.

And then this happened.

And then this happened.

And it just beats—beats the emotion, it beats the strength that was within you.

And you know, you get more and more punched.

But then something shifts.

Embracing that, and then recognizing the next positive.

The next positive.

So looking in the moment, and then starting to pay attention to the good that’s there.

And be present.

And not worry so much about what happened or what could happen.

I believe that when we get into these moments—and I’m told by many people that I listen to—that when we stay focused on the objective, we can maintain composure and prevent the burnout.

I think it’s definitely about being prepared every day, which is a challenge in itself, but trying to be prepared mentally, physically.

And then recognizing that when something doesn’t go my way, I may have an opportunity either to learn from it, or I’m past it.

I’m out of it.

And as soon as I recognize that, I’m okay again.

So making it happen fast.

Burnout is something that everybody experiences.

In my profession, dentistry has a significant reputation for stress.

And we connect with patients, and sometimes their energy is passed on to us.

And recognizing that they’re not doing that necessarily to harm us—if they’re having a bad visit, or they’re having a bad day, and they’re taking it out on us—just recognizing that we don’t have to embrace that.

We just do our thing.

And give them the customer service that they need.

And then that individual is no longer there for their visit.

And then everybody else from there can give us some positive experiences—communicating with the patient, learning about them, and they share their weekend, or their summer plans, or the accolades of so-and-so getting into college.

A new narrative is formed.

You follow that trend, have a good mindset, and you get out of that burnout situation.

But it’s not an easy thing.

It really isn’t.

And I acknowledge that.

And I’m glad that I know that now.

I didn’t know that 20 years ago.

You know, when you have that image of the future.

But the realistic image that I have now of the future is continuing to follow these ideals, learn from mistakes, and grow to the best that I can.

And put my best foot forward.

And if I can succeed in doing that as often as I can, I’ll be better off.

Maria Cabanellas: Yeah, I think it sounds good anyway—I believe it as well.

I have one more final question for you. This question comes from the previous guest, and so I'm going to ask the same for you.

As soon as you answer, I'm going to ask what question you'd like to ask the next person. It’s kind of a little fun game we're playing.

So, final question:

This person wants to know—when you decided to become a DSD Clinic, did you do this because you felt this was the time to certify and show that you were worthy at this moment—so let's certify it, make it official?

Or did you become a DSD Clinic because you felt it would elevate you to another level?

Dr. Michael Katsaros: That's a great question because sometimes humility is a tricky thing.

I think what we did in dentistry was certainly above what I had aspired to do.

The standard of care and the quality of the before-and-afters that we had in an analog world were significant but so challenging.

And sometimes we look back at a case, and they look great, and you had this great outcome.

But now that we have this digitization aspect, I realize what not seeing an architectural plan ahead of time has done—or not seeing that we left opportunities behind in improving this and that.

I embraced DSD after feeling burned out.

You want to talk about burnout?

We were really in that time of the pandemic, and it was just before, actually, that I may have connected with you.

And recognizing—just listening to Christian talk—and he said to me, and I felt like it was me, of course, right?

He's saying it to a group, to an audience, right?

But that connection, that, you know, we're always a beginner—it doesn't matter.

And my partner would say, you know, you can do the same thing for 20 years in a row and call yourself 20 years experienced, or you can grow.

And that—you know, two great mentors, right?—had come together and independently merged that concept with me.

And I recognized how DSD and digital dentistry could elevate younger and newer practitioners to become better simply.

If you have good skills, the art is also there as well.

And if you have the right ethics, you can connect with patients and show them what things would look like if they made this investment in themselves.

So that's what brought me to DSD—it was essentially the mindset.

It's different because there's lots of digitization out there.

You know, it's not uncommon for labs to come.

But do they get the concept of connecting and developing relationships and connecting with patients on an emotional level that's very sticky?

It was very easy for me to embrace that—based on this entire conversation, you can hear it all laced through.

And then I brought it to my team and my partners, and we talked about how we could do this.

And you mentioned how we have a very large office, and we were very much accustomed to closing the practice—at least monthly—having some type of long continuing education or meeting or shutting down the office for a day or two and bringing the educator to our location.

And that existed as a concept before I joined the practice—bring the best to us.

Teach the whole team, not just the doctors.

Because with CE, everybody knows—doctor goes, Monday morning they want to make these changes, and the team says, “Don’t worry, they’ll forget about it by Friday,” right?

But by engaging the team—and as most people know, if they don’t, they should find out—Christian is contagious.

So we didn’t know anybody else with DSD.

And he’s the—you know, the face and the CEO and the founder.

So I connected, I think, with you.

And I said, "How do we get Christian to Washington, D.C.?"

And I was like, "Who do you think you are?"

Maria Cabanellas: It stood out like crazy, though!

You know, I want to compliment you on that because most people going through implementations will say, "Oh, I'll take whatever I can get."

But you really took the bull by the horns, and you were like, "No, we want the person, and we want him to come here."

And you didn’t care what it took.

And you developed this from scratch because we did offer—you know, Christian travels and speaks around the world.

So to do a private training for an office was something we were like, "What’s going on?"

I had so many people asking me, like, "Who is Michael Katsaros? What’s going on here?"

I’m like, "Don’t worry, we’re figuring it out."

But we figured it out!

Dr. Michael Katsaros: We did!

Yeah, we did.

It was kind of the legacy of the practice to do stuff like that.

How do you stand out?

You have a trained team.

Not a dentist who's teaching everybody else.

We’re not educators.

We don’t have a curriculum.

You can’t teach patients—excuse me, team members—chairside.

You know, there are only so many days in the week, and you have to balance life.

So the best way to implement and change our practice instantaneously was doing something like that.

And we were accustomed to it, and this was a collective idea that I kind of bought into—the concept, literally.

And, you know, I bought into it when I met my partner.

And that concept just took us to the next level.

And, you know, bringing DSD to Washington, D.C., was the biggest one that we did.

Okay?

You know, I’m not saying that’s something that we invest in significantly, but that concept was that valuable.

We had all the tools.

We had digital dentistry.

We had all the iTero scanners.

I think at that time we had four or five scanners in the office.

We had two printers, a miller.

We have a computer designer.

But it was the systems and putting it all together and trying to stay away from that stone model and the ditching of the stone and carving.

And how do we implement this?

And then recognizing that there are only certain things that we are capable of doing in lab.

And basically, not necessarily repurposing, but our lab has evolved digitally.

But we know what we’re going to do with what labs—and the DSD lab—based on everybody understanding the concept behind it.

And so that was an immediate change.

And the burnout? It was an injection.

It had impact—to use a word that exists right now.

In every case, we changed the model of all patients that come in for smile consultations.

And even orthodontics—like an Invisalign consult—I'm going to talk about the objective and what their facial relationship was.

It was a lot easier and faster by showing them before-and-afters and helping them believe that this concept is good for them as well.

Because it's good for everybody.

Because the outcome is predictable, precise, less destructive, more ideal, and you can simulate that and then copy and paste it from beginning to end.

And then the end photos are better, but they were not that far off from the beginning try-in.

And it's exciting.

And it eliminates burr.

Maria Cabanellas: Absolutely.

Is it fair for me to say that maybe, initially, you were attracted to DSD because you felt like, "We’re there already, we have the scanners and the equipment, the team and all of it"?

But as you got into it more, would it be fair to say that eventually, it became—you know—the recognition that DSD did help elevate you in certain regards?

Dr. Michael Katsaros: Sure.

Absolutely.

You know, it’s a collective community, right?

And those that embrace it—you recognize that there’s a similarity that you share.

And it's collaborative.

It's not competitive.

And dentistry can be very competitive.

We should be more collaborative.

So that shift in mindset helps to recognize the other DSD Clinics that we're working with.

They’re doing similar things, and they want to do the right thing.

And the authenticity just feels right.

Everybody embraces it.

And it feels good.

Maria Cabanellas: Amazing.

Well, thank you so much, Michael.

This was wonderful hearing from you.